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People keep asking if I'm going to roll a tank now that this change has been made. Hell no... at this rate, by 4.2, Mages will have their own tanking spec. Problem will solve itself.

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Discussion (52) ¬

  1. Kades

    Yep, prettttyyy much lol

  2. Phobos

    So true :(

  3. Hotash

    you forgot the “healers” who rock up spec’d and gear’d for DPS with the “i is good healz”

  4. Olafski

    What, you mean a shadowpriest can’t cast flash heal? Nonsense! They can heal just as well!

    I mean, it worked in vanilla right..?

  5. Cristal

    Then theres the seane where that DPS “healer” turns to the next posible healer in the group, be it druid or pally, and asks, ” You wanna heal?” imeadialy after getting into the instace.

  6. Falco

    I personally have a whole offset of ilvl 359 tanking gear because noone in my guild needed the drops. I’ll be excited to queue as a tank and attempt to gain prizes while helping my fellow man!

  7. Fro

    You Good Sirs Are Genius.

  8. Shininjin

    I can see this happening, but hopefully the “kill-the-last-boss” part of it helps deter noob tanks or heals from getting rewards. Also, I’d like mounts and pets. Totally vanity, but who doesn’t want free shots at drops just for being good? Only prob is that you have to sign up individually

  9. raptorx

    um yuppers thats my though exactly……. woot mroe crappy tanks! someone shoot me now!

  10. Valenhil

    I’m pretty sure it won’t end up like that…an unspecced healer or tanker won’t make past the first boss.

  11. Hana

    Hehe… that’s pretty much my take on it. I don’t see random heroics being much worse than before, if at all.

  12. Markhan

    Not to mention all the tanks in pvp gear saying “lol this is ezmode, ive done ozruk before”…

  13. Dave

    Just saying… pugging cata heroics (i.e. dealing with the same whiny scrubs that infested LK since the introduction of the DF) is so awful that pretty much nothing they offer will get me to queue solo as a tank in the DF.

    The DF sped up doing instances but it murdered any accountability and community to casual dungeon crawling. Raiding is still fun but heroics are only (sometimes) fun in full guild groups.

  14. Music-chan

    This really isn’t much different from now. There is always the chance you’ll get some random shmuck who only queued as tank/heals because they knew their queue would be fast.

    My biggest issue is people who aren’t willing to nuture and help along people who honestly WANT to lean how to tank/heal but just don’t have the experience. I am cool with people who don’t have alot of skill but are honest about it and are willing to accept good feedback. There are a lot of potential tanks/healers who are being chased away from doing those jobs because other people in the group are too impatient and rude.

  15. Kaima

    The comic is absolutely brilliant.

    And sadly, Music-chan is right. With my tanking toon, the pain comes from the impatient dpsers who WILL NOT follow a kill order or wait for me to explain where in the room I’m going to tank a boss. With my healing & dps toons, it’s the godforsaken run-and-gun tanks who want to run the dungeon in 10 minutes flat so they just charge into mob after mob, figuring the healers & any hybrid class dpsers will save their butts. They attribute the group not wiping to their own awesomeness, not the fact that my boomkin druid had to pop Tranquility, or my warlock had to call an Infernal.

  16. Azek

    I’m really surprised Blizz thinks this will work. I hope many they read this strip and come to their senses. Or not.

  17. George

    I’m hoping the system will balance itself out after a while, with DPS-specced idiots learning the hard way that they can’t get anywhere as a tank/heals while a) people who want vanity stuff actually learn how to tank and b) tanks who don’t need gear get back into the queue for the extra rewards. There will be some hardship at first, but I’d be the faster queue time already baited most of the scrubs into learning a painful, repair-bill-inducing lesson.

  18. Gromff

    Ok, this time that’s DEF. me. Stoked you used me as the example of a skilled and well-geared tank =D I have the same worry about people just slappin on a shield and queuing, I know as a person with little to no interest in hunting for rare mounts it won’t make me want to do more heroics on my tank, maybe for my healer since he needs heroic gear. I suppose ZA/ZG might increase the heroic frequency but that’ll be for two weeks tops.

  19. HolgerDK

    That is spot on 😀

  20. Syvaroth

    this is pretty close to my first thought after reading the blue post and though i know how to play my blood tank (for dk is my main) and have a tank gear slightly better than heroic gear (through factions, crafting and 2nd rolls on tank stuff none of our tanks needed) it is no reason to rnd tank more. i got anzu, i got that white chicken from kael and its easier to farm rivendare’s at stratholme. the only reason to tank rnds is to get the blue proto. but for the proto its 2nd choice because a run through utgarde is done in 10-15 minutes.

    this system could work out… or it sentences the rnd part of the lfd to death fo no one would use it any longer to avoid, i quote, “DPS-specced idiots”

  21. Grommav

    @Music-chan and @Kaima

    When people are running these heroics they’re usually doing it either because they want gear, or they need their random done. When I like many, queue for either of those I want to be in and out as soon as possible. If you queue as a tank or a healer without having ever done it before pre-85 then that’s going to be on you, not us. It’s selfish to expect four members of the group to hold the newbie tank’s hand and show him the ropes.

    And honestly Kaima I’m not sure I get your reasonings for not liking to tank. The group won’t listen to you explain where you’re going to tank the boss? Since when does that ever need to be explained..ever? And if you’re marking mobs with skull and someone doesn’t kill it first then they can be kicked.

    Good comic though DailyBlink. This is going to be a nightmare =|

  22. Wired

    This is exactly what I’ve been saying will happen. Time saved will be placed into corpse runs and repair bills for dps. Then after dps run out of kicks they’ll have to start a NEW queue.

  23. Ahikam

    i r gud tnak, i has gud gear, i r patient, and i finish all dungeons all times, but i has most dungeon drop mounts and noncombat pets, me no care about rewards
    -bear druid on Silverhand, full heroic gear + some epics, who has over 100 mounts and noncombat pets, and is an alchemist with lots of money

  24. cartdude

    oh u guys forgot that it only work if u que in solo

  25. Rhey

    So false

  26. Kendro

    While Music-chan has a point, honestly, if people want to learn how to play the game, learning how to play inside the game is the worst way possible. Most terrible’ness of lesser developed players can be attributed to not spending even five minutes on the main WoW forums to even look at the sticked threads. If you have decent knowledge of your class, and a spoonful of common sense, tanking Cata heroics is not different from tanking dungeons since the beginning of the game. The same can be said for healers and dps.

    Implementing this feature along with steeper punishment for vote kicking, is not going to encourage more than a handful of decent tanks across the servers. While pushing for more idiots to queue in order to get, what they hope to be, effortless rewards.

    Also the problem isn’t that there are less tanks, or healers than there were in WotLK, the biggest problem is the fact that dungeons just take longer. Dps queues are about 37 to 50 minutes, in WotLK they were 10 to 25 minutes. In Cata it takes 30 to 50 minutes to run a heroic, in WotLK it took 10 to 30 minutes. The proportions of tanks to dps to healers hasn’t changed at all. The only thing that changed is that Blizzard decided to lengthen the time requirement for a heroic to be completed, this is the real cause for the “unacceptable” queue times.

  27. cb

    I don’t even want to heal now. this is EXACTLY what will happen.

  28. Xuvial

    DailyBlink, you never cease to win :)

  29. Garwulf

    Ok ok ok….we all know there are possible drawbacks here.I play all 3 roles pretty well.(Its all about the damage.I have a dealer,a healer,and a feeler!!) I enjoy quing solo in the DF with all 3 and consider it a test of skills to overcome the difficulties.Mage has an itchy trigger finger?…LEARN to adapt and anticipate!!..Heals not up to your standards?.LEARN to alter your tanking style to compensate!!.REMEMBER!!! you were once just as scrubby as THAT guy at some point!! LEARN to be flexible and you will become a better tank/healer over all.

  30. Kit

    There are really all good points. I think simply because of the sheer number of players & the traumatizing nature of bad PUGs, we’ll see & remember this scenario far more than that any competent tanks. As a tank I have definitely had my fair share of DPS that think the rules of Wrath still apply. I try to adapt to players who facepull and don’t wait for me but it is most definitely disheartening to be insulted endlessly by DPS who think they could do my job better.

  31. skulldaisygimp

    agree that it’s wholly unfair for a completely new tank to be led by the hand through a heroic instance, but it’s also unfair to expect someone relatively new (to tanking, or perhaps to just the specific instance) to know every in and out of a heroic (and the fastest, most efficient way to run it) without having done it a couple times. Even then, not everybody’s style matches up and no two people think alike.
    For instance, my brother plays a paladin; he started playing about halfway through BC. At level 10, he put his first talent point in Protection. He’s been Protection ever since. He’s tanked pretty much every Vanilla instance and raid, every BC instance, half the BC raids, and every single Wrath heroic. He was our off-tank for the Lich King. He’s a tank that knows how to tank and likes tanking. But, even in instances he knows well, he doesn’t just run from group to group, pulling as fast as he can to get it over with faster. It’s not that he goes slowly, he just works methodically. The problem is that people call him a newbie, complain about him going too slow, pull things in a wholly misguided effort to speed things up, and vote to kick him from groups. He’s doing everything right, but he’s not doing it as fast as they seem to expect. And every now and then, when they tell him to pull more or faster and we get overrun and killed when he finally gets tired of their tirade and tries it, they blame him all the more. Mind you, we don’t wipe or die nearly as much, so we save the time we’d otherwise spend rezzing/rebuffing and/or running back.
    I’m usually a healer or DPS, and wholly agree with Kaima about tanks assuming the reason we’re not dying is because they’re great, and not because the healer blew all his mana, mana-restoring cooldowns, and the druid’s Enervate just to keep the tank up. Which happens a lot. I also see a lot of tanks who just run from pull to pull, never taking a second to look to see if the healer has any mana in the first place. Then they die and wonder why they didn’t get healed, because the healer didn’t have time to say “mana” or to finish drinking before the tank was hip-deep in murlocs and half-dead.
    As for things “never needing to be explained, ever,” take into account that everybody agrees that skull is first in kill order, but it gets a little fuzzy after that. The general rule we used to run into with PuGs on our server was that kill order was skull, X, square, but now that we run with people from other servers, some of whom have other preestablished kill order demarcations (and most people, even on our server, now use square for which mob to ice trap), it got a little muddled. So taking a moment to make sure everybody’s on the same page before, at the very least, the first pull that requires some CC, is not a bad thing. Do you want the mage to sheep something, or the shaman to bind an elemental, or someone to cast hex or ice trap? All of it? Half of it? Or nothing? Communication’s a good thing, and tends to make things run more smoothly. And the tank explaining that they want to get the boss over to the back wall or something before the DPS blows their cooldowns and throws any conception of aggro mitigation to the wind (it happens a lot) is another example of communication being a good thing. Most people probably know how a fight goes. Hopefully, they read about how to do it on the forums, or asked a guildie or friend who’s done it before. But taking a second to ask “does everybody know this fight?” avoids a lot of problems when you’re in the instance with them. Nobody should be holding anyone else’s hand, sure, but a little communication isn’t hand-holding. Neither is fleshing out a detail of a fight everybody else might not be aware of. And in the event you do get somebody who doesn’t know the fight, it’s not the end of the world if all you have to do is tell them to pull the boss through the fire to knock his armor off, but not to keep him there. Obviously, there’ll always be idiots that both don’t know the fight and can’t tank, but there’s nothing we can do about that except kick them and requeue. But if they know how to tank in general, they should be just fine going into battle armed with the knowledge you impart.

    Have a nice day!

  32. Lune

    You should also consider, however, that though I know there are many idiots and morons and whatnot in the random dungeon finder, none of you can probably wash their hands in innocence, even though not all of you (or so I hope) are of the said idiots&morons club. The reason I stopped tanking is because I simply am too frightened to run in a group where people are disrespectful and flame each other (not even specifically me. It’s about the general atmosphere).

    I think, honestly, most issues would be solved if everyone could just be respectful and polite towards each other and treat them like a fellow human being who may just be more inexperienced at the game than you, and not a piece of thrash without feelings.

    Just because someone acted like a prick to you doesn’t mean you should to the next pug, too, no matter how bad or hopeless he is. It’s like the “I gank this lowbie orc warrior now because this undead mage ganked my lowbie 2 days ago” mentality.

  33. Sinamon

    @skulldaisygimp – TL;DR

  34. Laringar

    skulldaisygimp, you might have had good points in there. I don’t know. I saw a wall of text, and decided not to read at all.

    There are two things you need to do. First and foremost, use paragraphing. I see punctuation and capitalization, good on you for that. But with the small size of text on webpages in general, there’s no way you can expect someone to read that many lines without any natural breaks.

    Second, just make it shorter. I’m inclined to doubt that there’s enough material in that post that truly supplements the discussion to justify it approaching thesis length.

    tl;dr : tl;dr.

  35. raven

    Ah, love it… been there, tanking away.. 6th mob the preist whispers can you heal… me .. heal.. i am the tank. then he tries to vote kick me >.<, tg 3 were guildies,

  36. Gmrgod

    U rly like 2 write :p

  37. dashrandom

    It does seem like, as most are saying, that this change can cause an increase of negative experiences in using the DF.

    Lots of people flame and fight while in randoms and I mostly try to stay nice, defuse the situation, or stay quiet. But there are just times, like today…

    Healer: tank, really. no gems?
    Tank: yeah. well my hunter is in all 359
    Healer: i have a rogue with all 372
    Me: then it should be cheap for you to buy gems ^_^

    The tank not having gems wasn’t really as big a deal for me as his attitude. I just try to think of people with no gems/enchants in randoms as new 85s with gear that just isn’t all 346 which is totally fine if that’s the only problem (Although this time he was in all heroic gear and just didn’t put any gems in them). Then he calls us all fags and continues to argue with the healer for the next few pulls.

    I just pointed out to them that I really didn’t mind that the tank has no gems as long as he gets the job done followed by there not being any chat until the end where I thanked everyone for the run.

  38. Procrastinator

    Fun strip, but as one already briefly said, that won’t happen.
    Might be some horrible tanks trying it in the beginning. Then they figure out that they use 2 hours to finish the dungeon, with a lot of snide comments from the other pugs.
    You might get kicked, since you have to sign up alone, so you can’t be protected by friends.

    Those it doesn’t work for will only attempt it once, and the agony of it will make them go farm instead for 2 minutes to earn the probably 30-50 gold extra tanks will get ;P

    Have 2 and leveling a third, and while pugs are agony i think it’s kinda fun to try to save whatever horrors they come up with 😀

  39. mans51

    hey skulldaisygimp, it’s spelled innervate. enervate people is something I can do IRL…

  40. Gatling

    Rogues can do it too! Gogo evasiontank!

  41. manos1234

    That daily blink was too exaggerated.
    there is only so much one can do to prepare for tanking a heroic without having experienced tanking/healing it before.
    I had DPSed heroic SFK many times and knew it from inside out from a DPS point of view but nothing prepared me for the hell to heal it as a healer on your first time having cata on heroic mode even with great 346+ full healing gear I had farmed as dps. That first boss is brutal for a healer who does not know the fight well from a healer point of view and no proper normal mode to practice it.

    We all passed the stage where we were not “masters of the game” and none had tactics uploaded at their brains like in Matrix

  42. Connie

    I’ve been working on my heals in Normals despite having heroic level gear (if not epics) just so I can get the fight order down. Too many people ARE pulling too fast or not waiting for the healer to to have at least 75% mana. I’m afraid to queue for this very reason; a bad tank is a chore for me to keep healed up.

    And when I -do- tank with my Prot pally, I get the same ‘You’re going too slow’ commentary as referenced above. I’m being cautious to ensure we don’t get adds or that the rogue gets his sap off or the healer is at good mana levels. I’d rather we not waste time with a wipe and rez/runs.

  43. Metraton

    Then your is wrong. First – he plays a paladin. This is diagnosis, unquestionable. 2nd – slow pulls is waste of time. If he has tanked the whole crapton of content is still hasnt learned to tank actively – well, I dont want to start with insults. Why every single active tank is called a noob because healers cant manage their mana?! I have tanked WotLK heroics in blue gear outaggroing ICC gear DPS. I have cleared WotLK heroics in 15-20 mins with more gear. I do not CC any trashpack(xept for 2 healers) in Cata. I do not assign more signs than Skull. I drag the boss exactly where I want it to be in. And I do not give a slightest damn about what others think. I work hard to get the skull target down without casualties and to actually be the 1st or 2nd dps as a tank. I time and pop CDs in order to fulfil my mitigation and let the healer keep sanity. I healed 7\12 bosses and ALL heroics on my druid with most vicious pieces without drinking ONCE. With ANY tank. And you still whining about “active tanks”? And you still say “healers need manabreaks”? I have yet to see a party that would call my tanking “bad”.

  44. Metraton

    As for the actual comment – this strip is, as Rhey said: “So false”. The joking image of BoE equipped tank with Maloriak Muppethead is the kind of tank that would be farming satchels NOW. And the noob tanks do not enter queues, as even they understand their hopelessness. Unless they want to wipe their parties on purpose.

  45. Paladinleeds

    This situation rings true. The DPS were new and they got to the final boss, wiped as the DPS weren’t doing their job, and the tank left. They queued for another tank, I’m dropped in (woot!) and we engage the boss, they panic because Eradux keeps healing himself, and we wipe. They were probably expecting me to bail on them…

    I didn’t, and instead explained what they needed to do differently to win. They took my advice, accepted they’d messed up, and followed my advice. We then beat the boss and I was praised for my advice to better them all.

    Sometimes, the tanks can be just as elitist. But at the same time I’m learning the ropes for tanking. And I have to deal with those DPS who don’t understand I’m learning the ropes (which is why I usually on entry I’m a new tank). Those DPS force us into a lose-lose situation. We can either be vote kicked for being too slow, or speed up and get vote kicked for causing a wipe.

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